Enver Can, 56 anni, è nato a Gulja, nello Xinkjiang. Dopo le scuole frequentate a Faizabad (Afghanistan), si è trasferito in Turchia e da qui in Germania, dove vive con la moglie e quattro figli. Dal 1999 è Presidente del Congresso Nazionale del Turkestan Orientale.
Domanda: Alla caduta dell’URSS nel 1991 non è seguita quella della Cina ed oggi la secessione di regioni come il Tibet o il Turkestan Orientale sembra più che mai lontana. Questa nuova situazione ha modificato la vostra politica nei confronti di Pechino?
Nessun impero dura in eterno. Essere liberi ed aver la possibilità di decidere il nostro destino è un diritto divino di cui gli uiguri sono stati privati sino ad oggi. Il popolo uiguro aspira a riguadagnare l’indipendenza, ma saranno gli stessi uiguri nel Turkestan Orientale a decidere cosa volere e quale forma di governo scegliere. Noi reclamiamo l’autodeterminazione e per questo chiediamo alla dirigenza cinese di collaborare per un dialogo costruttivo per una risoluzione politica della questione.
A differenza dei tibetani, uniti nella lotta contro la Cina attorno al Dalai Lama, gli uiguri sono divisi in diverse organizzazioni prive di un leader unico riconosciuto. Forse molti uiguri non pensano neppure in termini di nazione. Come coordinare tutte queste istanze in una politica univoca?
50 anni di indottrinamento comunista e di “divide et impera” hanno contribuito a qualche sfiducia e divisione tra noi. Nei prossimi anni il futuro della nazione uigura sarà uno dei temi principali per la Cina, che vuole terminare la sua politica di assimilazione forzata e distruggere il dissenso pacifico con ogni mezzo. Ci sono state molte persone che avrebbero potuto diventare leaders se non fossero stati giustiziati dal governo e ci sono molte altre persone tenute prigioniere che potrebbero guidare una nazione se solo fossero libere. Noi, in Occidente, cerchiamo di creare le condizioni favorevoli in cui il nostro popolo abbia la possibilità di eleggere i loro leaders e scegliere il migliore governo che, io penso, debba essere secolare, pluralista e democratico.
© Piergiorgio Pescali
S-21 - Nella prigione di Pol Pot

S-21; un romanzo storico, una narrazione viva e potente che porta il lettore in una struttura detentiva istituita dal regime degli Khmer Rossi, una prigione da cui pochi sono tornati, seppur segnati nel corpo e nello spirito, vivi.
IL CUSTODE DI TERRA SANTA - un colloquio con padre Pierbattista Pizzaballa
INDOCINA - Un libro, una saggio, una guida per chi vuole approfondire

Per ordinarne una copia: 3394551575 oppure yasuko@alice.it
© COPYRIGHT Piergiorgio Pescali - E' vietata la riproduzione anche parziale senza il consenso dell'autore
Visualizzazione post con etichetta Cina - Xinkijang - 2006. Mostra tutti i post
Visualizzazione post con etichetta Cina - Xinkijang - 2006. Mostra tutti i post
Xinkijang: Intervista con Abdujelil Karakash, Direttore dell'East Turkestan Info Centre
Nato nel 1959 a Hoten, nello Xinkjiang, Adbujelil Karakash è Direttore del Centro Informazioni del Turkestan Orientale, con sede a Monaco.
Domanda: Dopo il 2001, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan hanno iniziato a discriminare gli Uiguri presenti entro i loro confini. Vi sentite in procinto di essere isolati anche dai popoli che condividono le vostre stesse origini etniche?
No. Sappiamo che i popoli di queste nazioni ci appoggiano e io credo nella gente; abbiamo legami storici con loro, nulla può cambiare questa essenza. Ma ci sono due motivi per cui questi governi non ci appoggiano: primo sanno di essere molto deboli nei confronti della Cina; secondo, il mio popolo ha commesso anche lui alcuni errori, specie in Kazakhstan, dove le attività politiche delle comunità uigure non hanno analizzato con sufficiente attenzione le relazioni tra la Cina e i vari governi della regione.
Gli Stati Uniti hanno accettato di includere nella lista delle organizzazioni terroristiche l’East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) a causa dei suoi presunti legami finanziari con al-Qaeda. Questa è stata una grande vittoria per la Cina. Come pensa che questo nuovo livello di cooperazione tra USA e Cina possa influenzare la politica del popolo uiguro all’interno della regione e delle organizzazioni uigure?
La cooperazione tra Stati Uniti e Cina ha causato grande sconcerto e sfiducia tra gli uiguri nel Turkestan Orientale. Hanno iniziato a non credere nella democrazia occidentale o di esserne stati traditi; hanno iniziato a perdere fiducia nella superpotenza americana. I Paesi democratici hanno chiuso i loro occhi verso le pulizie etniche compiute dal regime fascista-comunista cinese e non hanno mai appoggiato o aiutato gli uiguri nella loro lotta per la democrazia.
Pensa che anche le altre organizzazioni uigure rischino di essere classificate come terroriste?
Nessuna azione terroristica nel Turkestan Orientale è stata organizzata dalle organizzazioni uigure all’estero. Il controllo è così ferreo sulla popolazione che nessuno di noi è in grado di muovere alcunché nella regione senza che i cinesi lo sappiano. Qualsiasi violenza o azione terroristica intrapresa nel Turkestan Orientale è opera del terrorismo rosso cinese.
© Piergiorgio Pescali
Domanda: Dopo il 2001, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan hanno iniziato a discriminare gli Uiguri presenti entro i loro confini. Vi sentite in procinto di essere isolati anche dai popoli che condividono le vostre stesse origini etniche?
No. Sappiamo che i popoli di queste nazioni ci appoggiano e io credo nella gente; abbiamo legami storici con loro, nulla può cambiare questa essenza. Ma ci sono due motivi per cui questi governi non ci appoggiano: primo sanno di essere molto deboli nei confronti della Cina; secondo, il mio popolo ha commesso anche lui alcuni errori, specie in Kazakhstan, dove le attività politiche delle comunità uigure non hanno analizzato con sufficiente attenzione le relazioni tra la Cina e i vari governi della regione.
Gli Stati Uniti hanno accettato di includere nella lista delle organizzazioni terroristiche l’East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) a causa dei suoi presunti legami finanziari con al-Qaeda. Questa è stata una grande vittoria per la Cina. Come pensa che questo nuovo livello di cooperazione tra USA e Cina possa influenzare la politica del popolo uiguro all’interno della regione e delle organizzazioni uigure?
La cooperazione tra Stati Uniti e Cina ha causato grande sconcerto e sfiducia tra gli uiguri nel Turkestan Orientale. Hanno iniziato a non credere nella democrazia occidentale o di esserne stati traditi; hanno iniziato a perdere fiducia nella superpotenza americana. I Paesi democratici hanno chiuso i loro occhi verso le pulizie etniche compiute dal regime fascista-comunista cinese e non hanno mai appoggiato o aiutato gli uiguri nella loro lotta per la democrazia.
Pensa che anche le altre organizzazioni uigure rischino di essere classificate come terroriste?
Nessuna azione terroristica nel Turkestan Orientale è stata organizzata dalle organizzazioni uigure all’estero. Il controllo è così ferreo sulla popolazione che nessuno di noi è in grado di muovere alcunché nella regione senza che i cinesi lo sappiano. Qualsiasi violenza o azione terroristica intrapresa nel Turkestan Orientale è opera del terrorismo rosso cinese.
© Piergiorgio Pescali
Xinkijang: Interview with Enver Can, President of The East Turkestan National Congress
Question: The fall of Soviet Union in 1991 and the independence of the Central Asian countries, had rised up the hopes of the Uyghurs about a same fall of China followed by the independence of East Turkestan. But so was not. China is still one united nation and there is no sign of weakness in this unity. The independence of Tibet or East Turkestan now seems farest than ever. Have this modified your policy toward Beijing?
Mr. Can: The history is full of surprises. No Empire exists forever. The justice will prevail. The mankind lives with hope. The Uyghur people have the main three components of being a nation. We trust on Democracy and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. For the fate of the Uyghur people a lot will depend on the future role of Democracy.
Q.: Are you still fighting for an independent nation or would you instead change your fighting to get a real autonomous regional setting?
Mr. Can: To be free and be able to decide its own destiny is a God given right, which the Uyghur nation is deprived of now. The Uyghur people yarn to regain its Independence. We, as an international umbrella body which represents the interests of the Uyghur people abroad, can not and will not decide for them. It will be the Uyghur people in East Turkestan to decide what they want and which form of governance they choose. Nevertheless, we hope to be helpful in creation of a favourable democratic atmosphere for our people to determine their own future. Thus we stress “self-determination”, and call upon the Chinese leadership for a constructive dialogue with the aim of finding a political settlement.
Q.: After 2001 nations like Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan have started to prosecuted the Uighurs who are living in their land. Are you feeling going to be isolated also by your own rootbased co-ethnic people?
Mr. Can: No. Not at all. We understand that the newly independent states of Central Asia are in the process of nation-building. They, while trying to distance themselves from Moscow, during the last decade, gradually became more and more vulnerable to Chinese influence, both politically and economically. On the other hand, after the U.S. intervention in Afghanistan and its presence in Central Asia, there are signals that things will change. Also, the process of democratisation in Central Asia would contribute for the survival of our people there. We have strong historical and cultural ties with the peoples of Central Asia, and in due course they will understand that together we will be more stronger and it would also serve their interest to keep the buffer zone to the east.
Q.: The Tibetan struggle have a worldwide support, Uyghurs’ don’t. Can you explain why two different ethnic people fighting the same centralized government have a so different weight in the media coverage?
Mr. Can: You are right for the time being. Our Tibetan brothers left their homeland with their government, its assets, and of course with His Holiness the Dalai Lama. India, for obvious reasons offered them a save heaven in its territory. They have been able to develop a worldwide diplomatic and information network, Tibet Support Groups were set up in Western Democracies in addition to the prestige of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and his followers from all walks of life. All this, putting together, has helped for the present picture. By giving these examples, I am not trying to justify anything; of course we must do our homework. During the Cold War era the world was divided into two major blocks in which most of the Muslim countries used to be either under former USSR or belonged to the so called “Third World” under Chinese leadership. Both communist giants used well the Islamic card in their relations with these countries. It is fact that the Uyghur problem was neglected in the most of the Islamic world, and on the other hand in the past we were not able to establish a relationship with Western democratic institutions. The history of the Uyghur intellectual contact with West is very new. Only since last few years, the handfull Uyghur intelligentsia living in Western Europe and North America, working on voluntary basis, have been trying to bring the outcry of our people to the attention of the world community. And has taken the first steps of organising itself in the international arena. Actually, we are at the beginning of a long and difficult work, but determined to carry it out. The real professional work has to begin yet.
Q.: Tibetans are seen as a united people and the Dalai Lama is their clearly and only leader. Viceversa, Uighurs are divided in several organisations, fighting each other, they do not have a central leader either. Some organisation wants a secular state, others an Islamic oriented one. Probably a lot of Uighurs people do not even feel to be a nation. How can you coordinate all these instances in a one-way policy?
Mr. Can: Fifty years of Chinese communist indoctrination and the policy of “Divide and Rule” surely has contributed to some mistrust and disunity among us. Now, and in the coming years, the fate of the Uyghur nation will be at stake. China wants to accomplish its policy of forced assimilation and silence the peaceful dissent with every means in the next few decades. The Uyghur people are aware of this danger and most families suffered under the crack down of recent years. Our activities in the West, though in very low level yet, are seen as source of hope by our people in East Turkestan. Could all this be an incentive for more unity?
I am sure, there had been many people who might have become leaders, if were not executed by the government in recent years and there are many others being kept in prisons who might lead the nation if they are free. We, in the West, try to help to create a favourable condition in which our people at home be able to elect or select their leaders and choose the best way of governance for themselves, which I think is secularism, rule of law, pluralism and Democracy.
I believe that some positive signs, in which we can show our people that the free world cares for the fate of Uyghur people, would significantly contribute to find a more coherent policy.
Q.: USA has agreed with China to label the ETIM (East Turkestan Islamic Movement) as terroristic organization due its links with al-Qaeda. This is undoubtely a big win for China. How do you think this new co-operation between USA and China will affect the policy of the Uighurs people and the Uighurs organizations?
Mr. Can: Superpowers often exchange gifts with eachother. I hope it will be a onetime gifts to China after the airplane incident and to welcome the Chinese leader to Washington. Also, the Bush administration needed at least a silent China at the Security Council, a coalition partner in its drive against international terrorism, and China’s influence on North Korea is also vital. We should, and we will work more effectively and more professionally to inform the world community about the plight of our people. As Amnesty International put it:
“… the rights violations are perhaps the pick of the iceberg, and the international community can not stand idle and do nothing…”
Of course we will be trying to tell the truth to the world community: yet we must convince the world community that the Uyghurs are not extremists, not terrorists as China claims, on the contrary we are the victims of the Chinese policy of forcible assimilation, state terror, population transfer and religious restrictions. China has been hiding something from the world community. That is its heavy handed policy against our nation. I doubt that China would ever accept receiving an international observers team whose duty will be to find out who is terrorising whom in East Turkestan. A positive sign is that recently the world community began to bring up the Uyghur issue. So, inlight of these development China decided to back the U.S. campaign against international terrorism and in return hoped that the international community would tolerate its drive against dissent, including the Uyghurs. We will do our best that China not succeed in legitimising its policy of crack down. Hopefully in the future, the Western democracies will bring up the Uyghur issue more frequently than before. We will be working to prove and convince the free world, including the U.S., that in long run the Uyghur people posses the potential of being a reliable partner in Central Asia and would contribute for stability and spread of democracy there.
Central Asian region, including East Turkestan, posses valuable natural resources which are vital. And the Uyghur people, if free, very well will play a significant role in utilisation of these resources.
Q.: Do you think ETIM has really some links with Osama bin Laden’s group?
Mr. Can: I do not know this organisation and its people, and have no information about its existence. Even if it exists, those Uyghurs are people who fled the Chinese suppression to save their lives, and not to join Taleban or fight against anyone.
About its possible links with the Ben Laden group the only information I heard is that its, meanwhile killed, leader told a western radio journalist in a telephone interview that it has no links with Al-Qaeda.
Q.: During a trip to Northern Afghanistan before 2001, I was taken in a jail runned by the Massud forces. There I have met several Uyghurs people who were fighting for Taleban and, perhaps (as theyself have said) for al-Qaeda. To contact Taleban was no easy at all and to be hired by the Taleban or al-Qaeda army you should have backed by a well organized group, expecially for people who do not have money and school education.
So I do not think the China statements about some Uyghurs separatists organizations are only government’s propaganda.
Mr. Can: I do not know any Uyghur belonging to that organisation and have not met any, but it is possible that for many reasons (like to save their lives, to receive military training, of desperation or believe) some disillusioned individuals might have joined them. The Chinese counter-intelligence services are also active. There are also reports about Chinese support for the Taleban and eyewitnesses say, that China has sent its own agents to join the Taleban or al-Qaeda. So it is easier for China to prove its own thesis!
Q.: Do you think that China will try to label also others Turkestani organizations as terrorist?
Mr. Can: Yes, if we are not able to convince the world community about our innocence and, if the Western Democracies continue to sacrifice its moral values and democratic principles in return for short-term economic and national interests, I am afraid it would encourage Beijing to issue more and more lists to justify its crack down, to distract the world attention from the real problem and to pacify our democratic voice abroad which really began to disturb its image. A western analyst recently said that, during the cold War era dictators, to find acceptance by the West, had to be only anti-communist, now, especially after nine-eleven, authoritarian regimes to find acceptance by them, have to be simply anti-terrorist. I think, it is highly time for the Western democracies to differentiate and set the limits of tolerance and work more on effective confidence building measures to protect the crediblity of democratic ideals.
Q.: Do you still consider USA as allied or, lets say, a Country on which count in case of need?
Mr Can: A lot would depend on the conduct of Western Democracies, including the U.S. If they stop zig-zaging in the Human rights policy and find a common language, stop applying democracy selectively and stick to their moral values and democratic principles, these would deter dictatorships from suppressing democratic forces and ethnic minorities. (The best example is, if the West had found a common language in condemning China for its human rights record in Geneva few years ago, today China would not have dared to ask them to close organisations which operate under their democratic laws and to depart people who have received political asylum because they were persecuted by the Chinese regime for their believes and political activities). Otherwise, authoritarian regimes will grow bold and try to misuse these tolerance as weakness of democracies, and do everything to silence domestic democratic voices and to vorstall spread of democracy worldwide. If these trend continues, it will have a wideranging repercussion on the globalisation of democracy. So, I count on Western democracies, including the U.S. to work more actively and in a more serious manner for freedom, justice, rule of law and respect for human rights around the world to make the planet more safer which in turn would contribute very much for the world peace, stability and the prosperity of their peoples.
Me, and my collegues who have been living for many years in the West, we believe in the Democracy, rule of law, justice and the Universal Decleration of Human Rights, and do our best to convene these message to our people at home.
We, working peacefully under democratic principles and internationally accepted rules call upon the international community to recognise and assist us to be successful both in pressurising the Chinese leaders to sit for negotiation, and leading our people to a direction which we think is the best.
Q.: Some reports from the Human Rights Organizations have stated that China is going to move thousands of Uyghurs to the neighborough countries (the last report printed on China Daily have said that three thousands Uyghurs have been forced to move to Kazakhstan from East Turkestan). Can you confirm this?
Mr Can: I think China would not force Uyghurs to move to neighbouring countries. It has been pressing them to return some Uyghurs. Could it be possible that the report is about 3 thousand Kazakhs? As you know there are a considerable Kazakh population in East Turkestan. After independence, Kazakhstan have been trying to relocate some Kazakh people who have been living in some neighbouring countries back to Kazakhstan to change the actual demographic situation in favour of Kazakhs!
© Piergiorgio Pescali
Mr. Can: The history is full of surprises. No Empire exists forever. The justice will prevail. The mankind lives with hope. The Uyghur people have the main three components of being a nation. We trust on Democracy and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. For the fate of the Uyghur people a lot will depend on the future role of Democracy.
Q.: Are you still fighting for an independent nation or would you instead change your fighting to get a real autonomous regional setting?
Mr. Can: To be free and be able to decide its own destiny is a God given right, which the Uyghur nation is deprived of now. The Uyghur people yarn to regain its Independence. We, as an international umbrella body which represents the interests of the Uyghur people abroad, can not and will not decide for them. It will be the Uyghur people in East Turkestan to decide what they want and which form of governance they choose. Nevertheless, we hope to be helpful in creation of a favourable democratic atmosphere for our people to determine their own future. Thus we stress “self-determination”, and call upon the Chinese leadership for a constructive dialogue with the aim of finding a political settlement.
Q.: After 2001 nations like Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan have started to prosecuted the Uighurs who are living in their land. Are you feeling going to be isolated also by your own rootbased co-ethnic people?
Mr. Can: No. Not at all. We understand that the newly independent states of Central Asia are in the process of nation-building. They, while trying to distance themselves from Moscow, during the last decade, gradually became more and more vulnerable to Chinese influence, both politically and economically. On the other hand, after the U.S. intervention in Afghanistan and its presence in Central Asia, there are signals that things will change. Also, the process of democratisation in Central Asia would contribute for the survival of our people there. We have strong historical and cultural ties with the peoples of Central Asia, and in due course they will understand that together we will be more stronger and it would also serve their interest to keep the buffer zone to the east.
Q.: The Tibetan struggle have a worldwide support, Uyghurs’ don’t. Can you explain why two different ethnic people fighting the same centralized government have a so different weight in the media coverage?
Mr. Can: You are right for the time being. Our Tibetan brothers left their homeland with their government, its assets, and of course with His Holiness the Dalai Lama. India, for obvious reasons offered them a save heaven in its territory. They have been able to develop a worldwide diplomatic and information network, Tibet Support Groups were set up in Western Democracies in addition to the prestige of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and his followers from all walks of life. All this, putting together, has helped for the present picture. By giving these examples, I am not trying to justify anything; of course we must do our homework. During the Cold War era the world was divided into two major blocks in which most of the Muslim countries used to be either under former USSR or belonged to the so called “Third World” under Chinese leadership. Both communist giants used well the Islamic card in their relations with these countries. It is fact that the Uyghur problem was neglected in the most of the Islamic world, and on the other hand in the past we were not able to establish a relationship with Western democratic institutions. The history of the Uyghur intellectual contact with West is very new. Only since last few years, the handfull Uyghur intelligentsia living in Western Europe and North America, working on voluntary basis, have been trying to bring the outcry of our people to the attention of the world community. And has taken the first steps of organising itself in the international arena. Actually, we are at the beginning of a long and difficult work, but determined to carry it out. The real professional work has to begin yet.
Q.: Tibetans are seen as a united people and the Dalai Lama is their clearly and only leader. Viceversa, Uighurs are divided in several organisations, fighting each other, they do not have a central leader either. Some organisation wants a secular state, others an Islamic oriented one. Probably a lot of Uighurs people do not even feel to be a nation. How can you coordinate all these instances in a one-way policy?
Mr. Can: Fifty years of Chinese communist indoctrination and the policy of “Divide and Rule” surely has contributed to some mistrust and disunity among us. Now, and in the coming years, the fate of the Uyghur nation will be at stake. China wants to accomplish its policy of forced assimilation and silence the peaceful dissent with every means in the next few decades. The Uyghur people are aware of this danger and most families suffered under the crack down of recent years. Our activities in the West, though in very low level yet, are seen as source of hope by our people in East Turkestan. Could all this be an incentive for more unity?
I am sure, there had been many people who might have become leaders, if were not executed by the government in recent years and there are many others being kept in prisons who might lead the nation if they are free. We, in the West, try to help to create a favourable condition in which our people at home be able to elect or select their leaders and choose the best way of governance for themselves, which I think is secularism, rule of law, pluralism and Democracy.
I believe that some positive signs, in which we can show our people that the free world cares for the fate of Uyghur people, would significantly contribute to find a more coherent policy.
Q.: USA has agreed with China to label the ETIM (East Turkestan Islamic Movement) as terroristic organization due its links with al-Qaeda. This is undoubtely a big win for China. How do you think this new co-operation between USA and China will affect the policy of the Uighurs people and the Uighurs organizations?
Mr. Can: Superpowers often exchange gifts with eachother. I hope it will be a onetime gifts to China after the airplane incident and to welcome the Chinese leader to Washington. Also, the Bush administration needed at least a silent China at the Security Council, a coalition partner in its drive against international terrorism, and China’s influence on North Korea is also vital. We should, and we will work more effectively and more professionally to inform the world community about the plight of our people. As Amnesty International put it:
“… the rights violations are perhaps the pick of the iceberg, and the international community can not stand idle and do nothing…”
Of course we will be trying to tell the truth to the world community: yet we must convince the world community that the Uyghurs are not extremists, not terrorists as China claims, on the contrary we are the victims of the Chinese policy of forcible assimilation, state terror, population transfer and religious restrictions. China has been hiding something from the world community. That is its heavy handed policy against our nation. I doubt that China would ever accept receiving an international observers team whose duty will be to find out who is terrorising whom in East Turkestan. A positive sign is that recently the world community began to bring up the Uyghur issue. So, inlight of these development China decided to back the U.S. campaign against international terrorism and in return hoped that the international community would tolerate its drive against dissent, including the Uyghurs. We will do our best that China not succeed in legitimising its policy of crack down. Hopefully in the future, the Western democracies will bring up the Uyghur issue more frequently than before. We will be working to prove and convince the free world, including the U.S., that in long run the Uyghur people posses the potential of being a reliable partner in Central Asia and would contribute for stability and spread of democracy there.
Central Asian region, including East Turkestan, posses valuable natural resources which are vital. And the Uyghur people, if free, very well will play a significant role in utilisation of these resources.
Q.: Do you think ETIM has really some links with Osama bin Laden’s group?
Mr. Can: I do not know this organisation and its people, and have no information about its existence. Even if it exists, those Uyghurs are people who fled the Chinese suppression to save their lives, and not to join Taleban or fight against anyone.
About its possible links with the Ben Laden group the only information I heard is that its, meanwhile killed, leader told a western radio journalist in a telephone interview that it has no links with Al-Qaeda.
Q.: During a trip to Northern Afghanistan before 2001, I was taken in a jail runned by the Massud forces. There I have met several Uyghurs people who were fighting for Taleban and, perhaps (as theyself have said) for al-Qaeda. To contact Taleban was no easy at all and to be hired by the Taleban or al-Qaeda army you should have backed by a well organized group, expecially for people who do not have money and school education.
So I do not think the China statements about some Uyghurs separatists organizations are only government’s propaganda.
Mr. Can: I do not know any Uyghur belonging to that organisation and have not met any, but it is possible that for many reasons (like to save their lives, to receive military training, of desperation or believe) some disillusioned individuals might have joined them. The Chinese counter-intelligence services are also active. There are also reports about Chinese support for the Taleban and eyewitnesses say, that China has sent its own agents to join the Taleban or al-Qaeda. So it is easier for China to prove its own thesis!
Q.: Do you think that China will try to label also others Turkestani organizations as terrorist?
Mr. Can: Yes, if we are not able to convince the world community about our innocence and, if the Western Democracies continue to sacrifice its moral values and democratic principles in return for short-term economic and national interests, I am afraid it would encourage Beijing to issue more and more lists to justify its crack down, to distract the world attention from the real problem and to pacify our democratic voice abroad which really began to disturb its image. A western analyst recently said that, during the cold War era dictators, to find acceptance by the West, had to be only anti-communist, now, especially after nine-eleven, authoritarian regimes to find acceptance by them, have to be simply anti-terrorist. I think, it is highly time for the Western democracies to differentiate and set the limits of tolerance and work more on effective confidence building measures to protect the crediblity of democratic ideals.
Q.: Do you still consider USA as allied or, lets say, a Country on which count in case of need?
Mr Can: A lot would depend on the conduct of Western Democracies, including the U.S. If they stop zig-zaging in the Human rights policy and find a common language, stop applying democracy selectively and stick to their moral values and democratic principles, these would deter dictatorships from suppressing democratic forces and ethnic minorities. (The best example is, if the West had found a common language in condemning China for its human rights record in Geneva few years ago, today China would not have dared to ask them to close organisations which operate under their democratic laws and to depart people who have received political asylum because they were persecuted by the Chinese regime for their believes and political activities). Otherwise, authoritarian regimes will grow bold and try to misuse these tolerance as weakness of democracies, and do everything to silence domestic democratic voices and to vorstall spread of democracy worldwide. If these trend continues, it will have a wideranging repercussion on the globalisation of democracy. So, I count on Western democracies, including the U.S. to work more actively and in a more serious manner for freedom, justice, rule of law and respect for human rights around the world to make the planet more safer which in turn would contribute very much for the world peace, stability and the prosperity of their peoples.
Me, and my collegues who have been living for many years in the West, we believe in the Democracy, rule of law, justice and the Universal Decleration of Human Rights, and do our best to convene these message to our people at home.
We, working peacefully under democratic principles and internationally accepted rules call upon the international community to recognise and assist us to be successful both in pressurising the Chinese leaders to sit for negotiation, and leading our people to a direction which we think is the best.
Q.: Some reports from the Human Rights Organizations have stated that China is going to move thousands of Uyghurs to the neighborough countries (the last report printed on China Daily have said that three thousands Uyghurs have been forced to move to Kazakhstan from East Turkestan). Can you confirm this?
Mr Can: I think China would not force Uyghurs to move to neighbouring countries. It has been pressing them to return some Uyghurs. Could it be possible that the report is about 3 thousand Kazakhs? As you know there are a considerable Kazakh population in East Turkestan. After independence, Kazakhstan have been trying to relocate some Kazakh people who have been living in some neighbouring countries back to Kazakhstan to change the actual demographic situation in favour of Kazakhs!
© Piergiorgio Pescali
Xinkijang: Interview with Abdujelil Karakash, Director of the East Turkestan Info Centre
Question: The fall of Soviet Union in 1991 and the independence of the Central Asian countries, had rised up the hopes of the Uyghurs about a same fall of China followed by the independence of East Turkestan. But so was not. China is still one united nation and there is no sign of weakness in this unity. The independence of Tibet or East Turkestan now seems farest than ever. Have this modified your policy toward Beijing?
Mr. Abdujelil: My policy toward Beijing has never been changed. Because my people have been colonized, their struggle never has been stopped. They know what the independence means as they were independent people before, and they have a different culture and history.
Q.: Are you still fighting for an independent nation or would you instead change your fighting to get a real autonomous regional setting?
Mr. Abdujelil: Definitely, I am fighting for an independent nation; this is my people’s will. We have had many time negotiations with China in the past history for greater autonomy but they cheated us, so my people never believe China again. We need independence
Q.: After 2001 nations like Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan have started to prosecuted the Uighurs who are living in their land. Are you feeling going to be isolated also by your own rootbased co-ethnic people?
Mr. Abdujelil: No, I never feel going to be isolated because just those governments didn’t support us; but those country nations do support us. I trust their people, because we have historical blood connection nothing can change this fact. There are two reasons why those government don't support us: first they are very weak compared with China. Second, my people has some mistakes too, because those Uyghur activities in Kazakhstan didn’t analyze precisely the relations between china and those governments.
Q.: The Tibetan struggle have a worldwide support, Uyghurs’ don’t. Can you explain why two different ethnic people fighting the same centralized government have a so different weight in the media coverage?
Mr. Abdujelil: Tibetan faced western democratic world early than us. Our voice has just reached the western world because it had not been easy for Ugyhurs fleed overseas. That is why we have a very short history in western country. Before that, my people only faced to the Muslim countries.
Q.: Tibetans are seen as a united people and the Dalai Lama is their clearly and only leader. Viceversa, Uighurs are divided in several organisations, fighting each other, they do not have a central leader either. Some organisation wants a secular state, others an Islamic oriented one. Probably a lot of Uighurs people do not even feel to be a nation. How can you coordinate all these instances in a one-way policy?
Mr. Abdujelil: East Turkistan different with Tibet. Unlike Tibet we have many nations such as Uyghur, Uzbek, Kyrgyz, Kazak, Tajik and so on. I agree that we are not very united people like Tibetans are, but I don’t agree that there are some Uyghurs organization that want a secular state; this is absolutely a wrong statement! I agree that we had a different organization but I think it is not a bad thing, it is a sign of democracy. Those organizations can be easly united because their main target is the same and only one: to get freedom and independence for East Turkistan .
Q.: USA has agreed with China to label the ETIM (East Turkestan Islamic Movement) as terroristic organization due its links with al-Qaeda. This is undoubtely a big win for China. How do you think this new co-operation between USA and China will affect the policy of the Uighurs people and the Uighurs organizations?
Mr. Abdujelil: Cooperation between USA and China caused mistrust among Uyghur people’s heart in east Turkistan. They start don’t believe to western democracy, they start to lost proud and dream about US and they start to doubt about American super power. The western democratic country close their eyes to the fascistic red communist regime and ethnic cleansing on uyghurs, they never have supported or helped uyghurs’ struggle for democracy. Uyghurs have one proverb: naked person don’t scare water. Uyghurs now are like naked people, they don’t scare and don’t care anything. So they are ready for everything because they lost everything. But overseas Uyghur organizations still believe and respect democracy and human rights in this world.
Q.: Do you think ETIM has really some links with Osama bin Laden’s group?
Mr. Abdujelil: We don’t have any information that ETIM has links with Osama bin Ladin, but one thing is clear: ETIM‘s main target is China in order to get freedom for East Turkistan. We know that ETIM’s leader Hasan Mehsum said that they don’t have any connection with al-Qaida when he gave interview to the radio Free Asia.
Q.: During a trip to Northern Afghanistan before 2001, I was taken in a jail runned by the Massud forces. There I have met several Uyghurs people who were fighting for Taleban and, perhaps (as theyself have said) for al-Qaeda. To contact Taleban was no easy at all and to be hired by the Taleban or al-Qaeda army you should have backed by a well organized group, expecially for people who do not have money and school education.
So I do not think the China statements about some Uyghurs separatists organizations are only government’s propaganda.
Mr. Abdujelil: I think those Uyghurs went there to get army training to fight against China. They are not hired by al-Qayda, I don’t think al-Qayda needs them. Instead I think those Uyghurs want to use Osama bin Ladin to get a place to hide and get military training. China made one documentary film about one Uyghur prisoner who return from Afghanistan saying that bin Ladin gave them a space to live and weapons.
If you don’t think that China’s statements about some separatist Uyghurs organizations are not only government propaganda, how can you explain that China is arresting and executing Uyghurs inside East Turkistan? Did United States executed other American citizens whose relatives, parents and friends are connected with al-Qaida? Those few people in Afghanistan cannot be representative of all Uyghurs in East Turkistan. East Turkistan’s Uyghurs don’t have a responsblity for those few people’s, but China is using this as a excuse for killing my people. They arrested 6.000 Uyghurs and executed 50 Uyghurs inside East Turkistan since September eleven 2001. In april 1996, the Chairman of Xinjiang, Wang Le Chuen gave the famous order saying: “doesn’t matter if 1.000 Uyghurs have been arrested by mistake or even if they are non guilty. We shouldn’t let to escape even only one”. Since than they started an hard strike campaign arresting and torturing Uyghurs. Who do you think is the real terrorist? Who should give statement to who?, From violence will born violence, but compare to China, Uyghur’s struggle is self defence.
Q.: Do you think that China will try to label also others Turkestani organizations as terrorist?
Mr. Abdujelil: Probably yes, because China doesn’t know how to shy when she lie.
Q.: Some reports from the Human Rights Organizations have stated that China is going to move thousands of Uyghurs to the neighborough countries (the last report printed on China Daily have said that three thousands Uyghurs have been forced to move to Kazakhstan from East Turkestan). Can you confirm this?
Mr. Abdujelil: It was not true. Yes, China had a contract with Kazakstan but not 3000 Uyghurs, it was 3000 chinese peasants. I think China would like to control Kazakstan also with immigrate chinese to Kazakstan.
© Piergiorgio Pescali
Mr. Abdujelil: My policy toward Beijing has never been changed. Because my people have been colonized, their struggle never has been stopped. They know what the independence means as they were independent people before, and they have a different culture and history.
Q.: Are you still fighting for an independent nation or would you instead change your fighting to get a real autonomous regional setting?
Mr. Abdujelil: Definitely, I am fighting for an independent nation; this is my people’s will. We have had many time negotiations with China in the past history for greater autonomy but they cheated us, so my people never believe China again. We need independence
Q.: After 2001 nations like Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan have started to prosecuted the Uighurs who are living in their land. Are you feeling going to be isolated also by your own rootbased co-ethnic people?
Mr. Abdujelil: No, I never feel going to be isolated because just those governments didn’t support us; but those country nations do support us. I trust their people, because we have historical blood connection nothing can change this fact. There are two reasons why those government don't support us: first they are very weak compared with China. Second, my people has some mistakes too, because those Uyghur activities in Kazakhstan didn’t analyze precisely the relations between china and those governments.
Q.: The Tibetan struggle have a worldwide support, Uyghurs’ don’t. Can you explain why two different ethnic people fighting the same centralized government have a so different weight in the media coverage?
Mr. Abdujelil: Tibetan faced western democratic world early than us. Our voice has just reached the western world because it had not been easy for Ugyhurs fleed overseas. That is why we have a very short history in western country. Before that, my people only faced to the Muslim countries.
Q.: Tibetans are seen as a united people and the Dalai Lama is their clearly and only leader. Viceversa, Uighurs are divided in several organisations, fighting each other, they do not have a central leader either. Some organisation wants a secular state, others an Islamic oriented one. Probably a lot of Uighurs people do not even feel to be a nation. How can you coordinate all these instances in a one-way policy?
Mr. Abdujelil: East Turkistan different with Tibet. Unlike Tibet we have many nations such as Uyghur, Uzbek, Kyrgyz, Kazak, Tajik and so on. I agree that we are not very united people like Tibetans are, but I don’t agree that there are some Uyghurs organization that want a secular state; this is absolutely a wrong statement! I agree that we had a different organization but I think it is not a bad thing, it is a sign of democracy. Those organizations can be easly united because their main target is the same and only one: to get freedom and independence for East Turkistan .
Q.: USA has agreed with China to label the ETIM (East Turkestan Islamic Movement) as terroristic organization due its links with al-Qaeda. This is undoubtely a big win for China. How do you think this new co-operation between USA and China will affect the policy of the Uighurs people and the Uighurs organizations?
Mr. Abdujelil: Cooperation between USA and China caused mistrust among Uyghur people’s heart in east Turkistan. They start don’t believe to western democracy, they start to lost proud and dream about US and they start to doubt about American super power. The western democratic country close their eyes to the fascistic red communist regime and ethnic cleansing on uyghurs, they never have supported or helped uyghurs’ struggle for democracy. Uyghurs have one proverb: naked person don’t scare water. Uyghurs now are like naked people, they don’t scare and don’t care anything. So they are ready for everything because they lost everything. But overseas Uyghur organizations still believe and respect democracy and human rights in this world.
Q.: Do you think ETIM has really some links with Osama bin Laden’s group?
Mr. Abdujelil: We don’t have any information that ETIM has links with Osama bin Ladin, but one thing is clear: ETIM‘s main target is China in order to get freedom for East Turkistan. We know that ETIM’s leader Hasan Mehsum said that they don’t have any connection with al-Qaida when he gave interview to the radio Free Asia.
Q.: During a trip to Northern Afghanistan before 2001, I was taken in a jail runned by the Massud forces. There I have met several Uyghurs people who were fighting for Taleban and, perhaps (as theyself have said) for al-Qaeda. To contact Taleban was no easy at all and to be hired by the Taleban or al-Qaeda army you should have backed by a well organized group, expecially for people who do not have money and school education.
So I do not think the China statements about some Uyghurs separatists organizations are only government’s propaganda.
Mr. Abdujelil: I think those Uyghurs went there to get army training to fight against China. They are not hired by al-Qayda, I don’t think al-Qayda needs them. Instead I think those Uyghurs want to use Osama bin Ladin to get a place to hide and get military training. China made one documentary film about one Uyghur prisoner who return from Afghanistan saying that bin Ladin gave them a space to live and weapons.
If you don’t think that China’s statements about some separatist Uyghurs organizations are not only government propaganda, how can you explain that China is arresting and executing Uyghurs inside East Turkistan? Did United States executed other American citizens whose relatives, parents and friends are connected with al-Qaida? Those few people in Afghanistan cannot be representative of all Uyghurs in East Turkistan. East Turkistan’s Uyghurs don’t have a responsblity for those few people’s, but China is using this as a excuse for killing my people. They arrested 6.000 Uyghurs and executed 50 Uyghurs inside East Turkistan since September eleven 2001. In april 1996, the Chairman of Xinjiang, Wang Le Chuen gave the famous order saying: “doesn’t matter if 1.000 Uyghurs have been arrested by mistake or even if they are non guilty. We shouldn’t let to escape even only one”. Since than they started an hard strike campaign arresting and torturing Uyghurs. Who do you think is the real terrorist? Who should give statement to who?, From violence will born violence, but compare to China, Uyghur’s struggle is self defence.
Q.: Do you think that China will try to label also others Turkestani organizations as terrorist?
Mr. Abdujelil: Probably yes, because China doesn’t know how to shy when she lie.
Q.: Some reports from the Human Rights Organizations have stated that China is going to move thousands of Uyghurs to the neighborough countries (the last report printed on China Daily have said that three thousands Uyghurs have been forced to move to Kazakhstan from East Turkestan). Can you confirm this?
Mr. Abdujelil: It was not true. Yes, China had a contract with Kazakstan but not 3000 Uyghurs, it was 3000 chinese peasants. I think China would like to control Kazakstan also with immigrate chinese to Kazakstan.
© Piergiorgio Pescali
Xinkijang - Reportage
Per secoli è stato il Turkestan, un termine di origine iraniana che significa Terra del Popolo Turco, crocevia di innumerevoli carovaniere che formavano quella ragnatela di sentieri chiamati Via della Seta, percorsi da mercanti di ogni razza, fede e cultura. Marco Polo descrisse ampiamente questa terra che «aguale è al Gran Cane e adorano Malcometto (…) e sono tra greco e levante (…) e sonvi molti mercanti che cercano tutto il mondo; e sono gente iscarsa e misera, che mal mangiano e mal beono». Da queste lande, abitate prevalentemente da uiguri di ceppo turco, partirono gli Unni alla conquista di un’Europa ancor più divisa di quanto fossero loro, popolazioni nomadi, di poca disciplina, ma dotate di un gran senso di solidarietà tra clan. Poca nazione, molta comunità, insomma. E proprio questo scarso senso nazionale ha permesso alle varie potenze di manipolare gli uiguri per i loro interessi strategici. A partire dalla Cina, che iniziò a controllare il Turkestan nel II secolo a.C., per continuare con la Gran Bretagna, che nel 1862 armò e appoggiò Yakub Beg in una rivolta musulmana contro i Qing, prima che questi nel 1884 si annettessero l’intera regione. E per far capire di non aver intenzione di riperderla, le affibbiarono un nuovo nome nella loro lingua, il mandarino: Xinkjiang, “Nuove Terre”. Una sorta di Nuovo Mondo in cui l’aggettivo sottintendeva un riordino completo della regione in funzione antiturca, antirussa e, in seguito, antisovietica. Nei piani cinesi, lo Xinkjiang avrebbe dovuto essere un’appendice indipendente dell’impero, ma ad esso indissolubilmente legata. La caduta dei Qing nel 1911 consegnò la regione ad una serie di signori della guerra anticomunisti e al tempo stesso sanguinari. L’ultimo di loro, Sheng Shikai, massacrò 200.000 comunisti, intellettuali, studenti e nazionalisti musulmani. Solo nel 1940 emerse una figura carismatica, Osman, che 12 novembre 1944 portò il Turkestan Orientale ad un breve periodo d’indipendenza terminato nell’agosto 1949, quando l’aereo che trasportava i leader turkestani a Pechino per discutere il futuro della nazione con i comunisti, precipitò. Con esso si schiantarono le ultime speranze di indipendenza. Osman, che uiguro non era, bensì kazako, lottò fino al 1951, anno in cui venne arrestato e giustiziato. Da allora gli uiguri non hanno più saputo eleggere un leader veramente rappresentativo e questo, assieme alla sclerotizzazione dell’intera regione centro-asiatica, divisa tra i comunisti cinesi e sovietici, con i confini chiusi ermeticamente ad ogni occhio indiscreto, abbandonò gli uiguri al loro destino, permettendo a Pechino di trasferire nello Xinkjiang milioni di cinesi di razza han e di trasformare il deserto di Taklamakan nel più importante sito di test nucleari del Paese. L’autonomia della regione, concessa nel 1955, è in realtà solo uno specchietto per le allodole. Nello Xinkjiang tutto è in funzione cinese: dalle università, che nel settembre 2002 hanno abolito i corsi in lingua uigura, alle fabbriche, i cui posti dirigenziali sono riservati agli han perché, come ha recentemente detto il Segretario Generale del Partito Comunista provinciale, Wang Lequan (han anch’egli), gli uiguri non sono fatti per il lavoro in fabbrica. Vero è, comunque, che la Cina ha investito negli ultimi tre anni, miliardi di dollari per sviluppare questa provincia, che rimane la più povera della nazione. Scuole, creazione di infrastrutture, incremento del turismo e industrializzazione, hanno migliorato le condizioni di vita non solo degli han, ma anche delle razze autoctone. Ma, come spesso accade, anche lo sviluppo può essere interpretato in due modi opposti: il recente trasferimento di mille famiglie uigure in appartamenti nuovi dotati di tutti i servizi e l’abbattimento di 5.000 vecchie case per fare spazio a centri commerciali, uffici e residenze, è stato visto dagli uiguri come l’ennesimo tentativo di estirpare la loro cultura. Il crollo dell’URSS e la secessione delle repubbliche centroasiatiche nel 1991 aveva ridato speranze alle istanze indipendentiste, ma l’abile politica di apertura internazionale di Pechino e, soprattutto, le divisioni all’interno dello stesso movimento secessionista (i cui punti di coesione, più che il nazionalismo, sono il sentimento panturco e l’islamismo), hanno creato i presupposti perché, dopo l’11 settembre, gli stessi Stati Uniti, un tempo critici verso la Cina in fatto di diritti umani, avvallassero la richiesta di Pechino di includere una delle organizzazioni uigure più rappresentative, l’East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) tra la lista dei gruppi terroristici. Ed ora che anche gli stati panturchi dell’Asia Centrale sembra abbiano voltato le spalle agli uiguri dopo la creazione della Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), assicurandosi che nessuno stato centro asiatico offra aiuto all’indipendentismo, è la Cina che deve mostrare la propria disponibilità al dialogo. Senza trucchi e senza inganni.
© Piergiorgio Pescali
© Piergiorgio Pescali
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