Xinkijang: Interview with Abdujelil Karakash, Director of the East Turkestan Info Centre

Question: The fall of Soviet Union in 1991 and the independence of the Central Asian countries, had rised up the hopes of the Uyghurs about a same fall of China followed by the independence of East Turkestan. But so was not. China is still one united nation and there is no sign of weakness in this unity. The independence of Tibet or East Turkestan now seems farest than ever. Have this modified your policy toward Beijing?
Mr. Abdujelil: My policy toward Beijing has never been changed. Because my people have been colonized, their struggle never has been stopped. They know what the independence means as they were independent people before, and they have a different culture and history.

Q.: Are you still fighting for an independent nation or would you instead change your fighting to get a real autonomous regional setting?
Mr. Abdujelil: Definitely, I am fighting for an independent nation; this is my people’s will. We have had many time negotiations with China in the past history for greater autonomy but they cheated us, so my people never believe China again. We need independence

Q.: After 2001 nations like Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan have started to prosecuted the Uighurs who are living in their land. Are you feeling going to be isolated also by your own rootbased co-ethnic people?
Mr. Abdujelil: No, I never feel going to be isolated because just those governments didn’t support us; but those country nations do support us. I trust their people, because we have historical blood connection nothing can change this fact. There are two reasons why those government don't support us: first they are very weak compared with China. Second, my people has some mistakes too, because those Uyghur activities in Kazakhstan didn’t analyze precisely the relations between china and those governments.

Q.: The Tibetan struggle have a worldwide support, Uyghurs’ don’t. Can you explain why two different ethnic people fighting the same centralized government have a so different weight in the media coverage?
Mr. Abdujelil: Tibetan faced western democratic world early than us. Our voice has just reached the western world because it had not been easy for Ugyhurs fleed overseas. That is why we have a very short history in western country. Before that, my people only faced to the Muslim countries.

Q.: Tibetans are seen as a united people and the Dalai Lama is their clearly and only leader. Viceversa, Uighurs are divided in several organisations, fighting each other, they do not have a central leader either. Some organisation wants a secular state, others an Islamic oriented one. Probably a lot of Uighurs people do not even feel to be a nation. How can you coordinate all these instances in a one-way policy?
Mr. Abdujelil: East Turkistan different with Tibet. Unlike Tibet we have many nations such as Uyghur, Uzbek, Kyrgyz, Kazak, Tajik and so on. I agree that we are not very united people like Tibetans are, but I don’t agree that there are some Uyghurs organization that want a secular state; this is absolutely a wrong statement! I agree that we had a different organization but I think it is not a bad thing, it is a sign of democracy. Those organizations can be easly united because their main target is the same and only one: to get freedom and independence for East Turkistan .

Q.: USA has agreed with China to label the ETIM (East Turkestan Islamic Movement) as terroristic organization due its links with al-Qaeda. This is undoubtely a big win for China. How do you think this new co-operation between USA and China will affect the policy of the Uighurs people and the Uighurs organizations?
Mr. Abdujelil: Cooperation between USA and China caused mistrust among Uyghur people’s heart in east Turkistan. They start don’t believe to western democracy, they start to lost proud and dream about US and they start to doubt about American super power. The western democratic country close their eyes to the fascistic red communist regime and ethnic cleansing on uyghurs, they never have supported or helped uyghurs’ struggle for democracy. Uyghurs have one proverb: naked person don’t scare water. Uyghurs now are like naked people, they don’t scare and don’t care anything. So they are ready for everything because they lost everything. But overseas Uyghur organizations still believe and respect democracy and human rights in this world.

Q.: Do you think ETIM has really some links with Osama bin Laden’s group?
Mr. Abdujelil: We don’t have any information that ETIM has links with Osama bin Ladin, but one thing is clear: ETIM‘s main target is China in order to get freedom for East Turkistan. We know that ETIM’s leader Hasan Mehsum said that they don’t have any connection with al-Qaida when he gave interview to the radio Free Asia.

Q.: During a trip to Northern Afghanistan before 2001, I was taken in a jail runned by the Massud forces. There I have met several Uyghurs people who were fighting for Taleban and, perhaps (as theyself have said) for al-Qaeda. To contact Taleban was no easy at all and to be hired by the Taleban or al-Qaeda army you should have backed by a well organized group, expecially for people who do not have money and school education.
So I do not think the China statements about some Uyghurs separatists organizations are only government’s propaganda.
Mr. Abdujelil: I think those Uyghurs went there to get army training to fight against China. They are not hired by al-Qayda, I don’t think al-Qayda needs them. Instead I think those Uyghurs want to use Osama bin Ladin to get a place to hide and get military training. China made one documentary film about one Uyghur prisoner who return from Afghanistan saying that bin Ladin gave them a space to live and weapons.
If you don’t think that China’s statements about some separatist Uyghurs organizations are not only government propaganda, how can you explain that China is arresting and executing Uyghurs inside East Turkistan? Did United States executed other American citizens whose relatives, parents and friends are connected with al-Qaida? Those few people in Afghanistan cannot be representative of all Uyghurs in East Turkistan. East Turkistan’s Uyghurs don’t have a responsblity for those few people’s, but China is using this as a excuse for killing my people. They arrested 6.000 Uyghurs and executed 50 Uyghurs inside East Turkistan since September eleven 2001. In april 1996, the Chairman of Xinjiang, Wang Le Chuen gave the famous order saying: “doesn’t matter if 1.000 Uyghurs have been arrested by mistake or even if they are non guilty. We shouldn’t let to escape even only one”. Since than they started an hard strike campaign arresting and torturing Uyghurs. Who do you think is the real terrorist? Who should give statement to who?, From violence will born violence, but compare to China, Uyghur’s struggle is self defence.

Q.: Do you think that China will try to label also others Turkestani organizations as terrorist?
Mr. Abdujelil: Probably yes, because China doesn’t know how to shy when she lie.

Q.: Some reports from the Human Rights Organizations have stated that China is going to move thousands of Uyghurs to the neighborough countries (the last report printed on China Daily have said that three thousands Uyghurs have been forced to move to Kazakhstan from East Turkestan). Can you confirm this?
Mr. Abdujelil: It was not true. Yes, China had a contract with Kazakstan but not 3000 Uyghurs, it was 3000 chinese peasants. I think China would like to control Kazakstan also with immigrate chinese to Kazakstan.

© Piergiorgio Pescali